1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,240 People, places and things, and you meet them all on WDNC radio. 2 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:14,160 This is another of the series of people, places and things involving UFOs, unidentified flying 3 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:15,160 objects. 4 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:22,560 And with us tonight is Mr. William E. Deloach, security officer with the Western Electric 5 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:24,360 Corporation in Burlington. 6 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:33,360 Mr. Deloach lives in Burlington, North Carolina and several years ago Mr. Deloach saw what 7 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:36,880 he thinks was a flying saucer. 8 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:42,480 Mr. Deloach is, I'd like to ask you first of all, sir, how long have you been employed 9 00:00:42,480 --> 00:00:45,120 with the Western Electric Corporation? 10 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:47,120 13 years. 11 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:48,600 13 years. 12 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:55,600 And this is the first strange object that you've ever seen of this nature, is that right, sir? 13 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:57,600 Yes, sir, that is correct. 14 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:02,600 Mr. Deloach, what could you just tell our radio audience what you saw? 15 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:10,600 It was in the fall of the year, in 1951, I happened to glance up and beside a water tank 16 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,600 a silvery, aluminum object was coming down out of the clouds. 17 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:17,600 It came down slowly until it reached the height of the water tank. 18 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:24,600 Then it stayed there for several seconds, rotating as it stayed in the air, spinning 19 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:27,600 more like a top, spinning like a top. 20 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:33,600 And then it took off to the left at a speed so fast that you could not see it, but it 21 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:35,600 left a silver streak behind it. 22 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:40,600 I got a perfect description of the object because it came down beside the top of the 23 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:45,600 water tank and it was approximately the same size as the water tank. 24 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:49,600 Mr. Deloach, what time did you see this object that you saw? 25 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:53,600 It was about one o'clock in the morning. 26 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:57,600 And this happened at the Western Electric Corporation in Burlington? 27 00:01:57,600 --> 00:01:59,600 No, it didn't happen there. 28 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:02,600 It happened beside another water tank in the city of Burlington. 29 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:03,600 In the city of Burlington? 30 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:05,600 Yes, sir. 31 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:10,600 Did you report this unidentified flying object immediately? 32 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,600 I discussed it the next morning with several people. 33 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:16,600 Someone else was with you at the time that you saw this. 34 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:19,600 Yes, there was another gentleman with me at the time I saw it. 35 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:24,600 I called him and asked him to look at it and he thought I was joking and didn't look until 36 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:28,600 it had already left and all he saw was a silver streak in the sky. 37 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:34,600 I have a book here in front of me, sir, and before we went on the air, you pointed, there 38 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:42,600 are several diagrams here of what has been drawn, an artist's interpretation of the 39 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:46,600 reports of UFOs unidentified flying objects. 40 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:53,600 And from this, you had picked one picture which resembles that of a top. 41 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:56,600 Is this the correct picture, sir? 42 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,600 That is absolutely a correct picture of what I saw. 43 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,600 Now, this was silver in color. 44 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:03,600 Silver in color. 45 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:09,600 And you say that it left at a speed that made it so it was impossible to see. 46 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:14,600 It left at a speed so rapidly that it was possible to see it as it left and it left 47 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:16,600 a silver streak in the sky. 48 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:19,600 There is no doubt of what it was a spaceship on another planet. 49 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:26,600 And you are certain that, in other words, there is no doubt in your mind as to whether 50 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:31,600 this might have been a so-called sun dog or a reflection from the moon or stars or 51 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:35,600 something like that or a figment of your imagination. 52 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:40,600 It could not have been a figment of my imagination because it was still cloudy and the moon did 53 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:45,600 not rise that morning until approximately daylight. 54 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:50,600 Thank you very much, Mr. Deloach, for your outwitness account of this UFO. 55 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:55,600 People, places and things, and you meet them all on WDNC radio. 56 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,600 Thank you, Bob. 57 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:04,600 People, places and things, and you meet them all on WDNC radio. 58 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:11,600 The UFO Investigator is the official publication of the National Investigations Committee on 59 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:14,600 Aerial Phenomena, or NICAP. 60 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:21,600 And in the current edition of the UFO Investigator is a paragraph which I would like to read to you. 61 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:27,600 A scientific conclusion that flying saucers are real and under intelligent control was 62 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:32,600 made public this month by a group of California scientists and engineers. 63 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:37,600 The group includes Dr. Robert Baker of UCLA Histromania Department, 64 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:43,600 Robert Buckley of Caltech Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Dr. Leslie Keyburn, 65 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,600 University of Southern California's medical department, 66 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:50,600 Fort Kimball, head of the Walt Disney Scientific Projects Section, 67 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:59,600 and engineers from Marquank, Aircraft and Thompson-Remo Woolridge Space Consultants to the Air Force. 68 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:09,600 The statement almost conclusively indicates that there is beings from other planets observing the 69 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:15,600 Earth from maybe from scientific standpoints or something else. 70 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:19,600 But this is not a belief of WDNC radio. 71 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:24,600 This is a belief of people who belong to the NICAP organization. 72 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:31,600 The Air Force claims that they have identified 7 out of 10 UFOs reported to them. 73 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:36,600 The purpose of this organization is to find out what the other 3 are. 74 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:40,600 We have with us tonight Mr. Bernard Hogan, 75 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:45,600 bacteriologist with the North Carolina State Laboratory of Hygiene in Raleigh, North Carolina. 76 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:51,600 Mr. Hogan lives in Cary, and he is president of the local NICAP organization. 77 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:58,600 Mr. Hogan, how did you first become interested in this NICAP field, the UFO field? 78 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:08,600 Well, I first learned that there were contradictions in the reports regarding flying saucers. 79 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:16,600 They were denied and labeled hoaxes and hallucinations and misidentified objects by the Air Force. 80 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:25,600 Many testimonies by witnesses, and life magazine, time magazine, and other magazines, 81 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:32,600 including an article by a Navy scientist who tracked the flying saucer. 82 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:40,600 There was so much contradiction I decided to look into these things for myself and investigate them scientifically. 83 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:45,600 This organization has been completely investigated by WNC Radio, 84 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:54,600 and we can assure our radio audience that the quality of the people that are members of this organization are not fanatics. 85 00:06:54,600 --> 00:07:01,600 A lot of them are scientists, doctors, lawyers, maybe even your next door neighbor. 86 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:11,600 They do not definitely believe that maybe the world is coming to an end or something of that nature. 87 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:16,600 What they are believing, what they are trying to get across to the public, 88 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:23,600 is the feeling that the government should inform all the people of the United States and of the world 89 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:28,600 that these mysterious objects are in our universe, 90 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:32,600 and for that reason we should find out a little something more about it. 91 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:36,600 They do not know what they are. They should inform the public of that nature. 92 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:46,600 Mr. Hogan, the UFOs have been cited, I believe, more than 16,000 reports. Is that right, sir? 93 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:55,600 Well, there were about 16,000 news clippings, which various witnesses reported from time to time. 94 00:07:55,600 --> 00:08:08,600 During the period from about 1947 through about 1953, as reported by Edward Ruefeld in his book, Unidentified Flying Objects, 95 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:17,600 who was, Edward Ruefeld was Chief of the Air Force's Project Blue Book Investigating Flying Sources from 1951 to 1953. 96 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:28,600 What is your explanation of why the Air Force does not release data to the citizens of the United States about what these things are? 97 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:41,600 Well, Bob, I don't think it's the entire Air Force. At one time there were segments of it that regarded this thing as worthy of public attention, 98 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:52,600 and they released, or had released from the Pentagon, sightings to Donald Kehoe, our director, in which was published in his book, 99 00:08:52,600 --> 00:09:01,600 Applying Sources of Matter Space. And at that time the lid was more open, and now the lid has closed. 100 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:06,600 For what reason? I do not know, except that several reasons have been put forth. 101 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:15,600 One is that they may create a small panic, and possibly another reason is that they have not fully explained this phenomenon, 102 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:19,600 and until they do they will probably want to study it much more. 103 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:30,600 Donald Kehoe, who is the president of this organization, has come out with a statement that we had on before, shortly before this interview, 104 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:42,600 and he made the statement that during 1959 he predicted that the Air Force would release all of its restrictions and make known to the public that the UFOs are real, 105 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:46,600 and do you think that this will happen, sir? 106 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:59,600 Well Bob, I don't know, it depends on how much pressure is put on the Air Force, and of course probably the Central Intelligence Agency, who may be behind the whole thing. 107 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:08,600 You have some interesting events that have happened to you, and we will get back to these in a little bit later, 108 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:18,600 but right now I'd like to thank you, sir, for being with us, and we will get back to your strange sightings and your investigations a little bit later on. 109 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:22,600 People, places and things, you meet them all on WDNC radio. 110 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:28,600 People, places and things, and you meet them all on WDNC radio. 111 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:40,600 In the Durham Herald, the edition of September 30, 1958, a story appeared, and I'd like to read from the story now. 112 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:49,600 A meteor streaked through the moonlight-tredon sky over central North Carolina Monday, touching off reports of a plane crash in the area. 113 00:10:50,600 --> 00:11:02,600 Investigations, however, discounted that the plane crash theory, and authorities said the strange, brilliant objects seen flashing in the sky at 4.30 a.m. was a meteorite which burned out in the atmosphere. 114 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:08,600 The object was visible in the Harnett-Cumberland County area and at Fort Bragg. 115 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:14,600 The Dunn Police Department received reports that a plane might have crashed near the area. 116 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:32,600 The local NICAP organization, the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena, investigated this happening in Dunn, North Carolina, and with us to report on this investigation is Mr. Jim Puller, who is president of the Malburn Hotel Incorporated Association in Durham. 117 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:39,600 And Mr. Puller, could you tell us exactly what the NICAP committee did? 118 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:55,600 Well Bob, first we read the report in the local news papers saying that first the plane crash had been reported and then that report was discounted because authorities said it was a meteor. 119 00:11:56,600 --> 00:12:05,600 Further to that, the report came over a station WPTF, which I believe is a Dunn radio station. 120 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:12,600 That made it sound a little more curious by saying that the object looked like a big barn on fire. 121 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:19,600 The whole thing sounded just a little strange, so we decided to go over and take a look at it. 122 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:31,600 Ben Haugen, who was the president of our local NICAP chapter and myself, drove over to Dunn about two days after the sighting. 123 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:46,600 And we found with the cooperation of the local radio station that the report had been turned in by Mr. William E. Tartt, who is in charge of the Lee Trucking Terminal at night. 124 00:12:47,600 --> 00:13:00,600 We contacted Mr. Tartt at his home. He described this object to us as looking like the fuselage of a B-29 without wings. 125 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:11,600 It was glowing in the front and from the glow, the reflected glow along the sides and rear of the object. He could see windows. 126 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:20,600 We found out that there were several other boys with him at the time. We contacted one of them at his home. 127 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:32,600 He confirmed Tartt's description of the thing with the exception that he said he could see no windows, but that the object did reflect a metallic glow. 128 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:48,600 This certainly did not sound like a meteor. We checked with the local police department and found that they contacted the highway patrol and in turn contacted the Raleigh Dura airport. 129 00:13:49,600 --> 00:14:06,600 The Raleigh Dura airport told the highway patrol that there was a report of an unidentified object streaking through the sky in the southeast of the lead direction about that time, but that nothing further was known about it. 130 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:19,600 These boys are in Dunn, claimed that this object was crashing in the vicinity of Coates, which is northwest of Dunn. 131 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:31,600 The local policeman on duty at the time investigated to see if they could find any trace of a crash plane in that area. Nothing was found. 132 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:47,600 There was no questioning of the witnesses by any so-called authorities to determine what the object looked like to them, what their description was of it, the speed it was traveling at, or the angle it was coming in at. 133 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:56,600 So therefore it seems very strange that the newspaper reports carrying that it's having the authorities declare it was a meteor. 134 00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:07,600 Do you think that this report and this explanation is one of the seven out of ten that the Air Force claimed have been identified at the UFOs, Mr. Pullock? 135 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:22,600 Well, it's very possible because this is their method of identifying them that they can identify something without any evidence or any eyewitness reports. 136 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:31,600 And that may account for the seven that they can explain, but I personally think that it falls within the three out of ten category of the unknowns. 137 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:50,600 I, for one, have investigated a report that was made to me by your local committee, your local club here, about a happening several years ago at the Oak Ridge Atomic Energy site in Tennessee. 138 00:15:50,600 --> 00:16:09,600 And I have inquired from an Air Force general who would not let me quote his statement and would not tape a program with me, but he did verify that a strange happening did occur several years ago at the Oak Ridge Institute. 139 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:26,600 The report has that a strange object landed within a quarter to a half a mile from the Atomic Energy site and that the security police of the Atomic Energy, I believe you've heard this too, haven't you? 140 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:27,600 Yes, I have. 141 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:41,600 And went to investigate this strange object which was supposedly to have landed within a half a mile of the Atomic Energy site. 142 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:48,600 Upon reaching approximately two, three hundred yards from this particular site, there was eight vehicles. 143 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:58,600 All of the power of these vehicles just vanished. The cars stopped. There was no electrical power whatsoever to start the cars. 144 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:10,600 And the happening was explained as, could not be explained and they still don't know what happened. The NICAP committee has numerous accounts like this, haven't they? 145 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:28,600 Numerous accounts, not only of automobiles but of planes in the air where the ignition has just turned off and then just as automatically turned on again after the disappearance of the UFO. 146 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:41,600 The investigation that you had and done, does the committee both here in Durham and also the committee in Washington believe that this was a flying saucer? 147 00:17:41,600 --> 00:18:01,600 Well, the committee in Washington does not accept all reports of UFOs quite so readily as that. They have a Board of Advisors and the Board of Advisors study all of these reports and they do not give them out overnight or even within several weeks. 148 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:15,600 This thing, these reports or findings of the Board are certainly well considered and carefully considered before they accept them as bona fide UFOs. 149 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:20,600 So we have yet to receive a report on that from our Board of Advisors. 150 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:27,600 Thank you very much, Mr. Puller. People, places and things and you meet them all on WDNC radio. 151 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:47,600 Continuing our series on UFOs, Unidentified Flying Objects, we have with us Mr. Jim Puller, who is president of the Melbourne Hotel Incorporated Chain here in Durham. 152 00:18:48,600 --> 00:19:00,600 And Mr. Puller, could you tell us how you first began to be interested in NICAP, the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena? 153 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:19,600 Well, I go back a little further than that Bob. I became interested in the UFO situation through my friendship and contact with pilots with the British Overseas Airways Corporation during the period that I was in New York. 154 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:30,600 Several of those boys who I might consider are the most unimaginative types in the world have had actual sightings on this sort of thing. 155 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:44,600 One of them, Captain Jim Howard, even once to the extent of awakening all of his passengers so that they too could see the objects that were hovering around the plane and maneuvering around the plane. 156 00:19:45,600 --> 00:20:00,600 When he reported this by radio to the local Air Force base, at Gander, I believe it was, they sent up a flight of jet interceptors to see what these things were at the approach of the jets. 157 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:08,600 The UFOs took off at a rate of speed that the jets could not hope to duplicate and were lost. 158 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:20,600 People like that believe in them and have seen them. I can hardly do anything but become curious about the thing. 159 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:30,600 Since then I've read just about every article on them, every news clipping on them and all the books and all that sort of thing. 160 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:37,600 And I've come to the conclusion that there is nothing to do but accept the fact that there is something unusual in the sky. 161 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:47,600 Is this not unusual though that Jim, that you belong to an organization such as this and you have never seen a UFO? 162 00:20:47,600 --> 00:21:00,600 Not quite. I wouldn't say that because our director, Major Kehoe, has informed me that he has never personally sighted one of these things except on radar. 163 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:09,600 However, as I say, the overwhelming body of evidence is for the existence of such things. 164 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:21,600 When you have people such as Professor Hermann Oberth, the father of rocketry, making the statement that these things definitely exist. 165 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:39,600 Our ambassador to Switzerland, Mr. Henry Taylor, when the question was put before him at his senate committee, which was passing upon his ability to serve as our ambassador, 166 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:46,600 someone threw the question at him that they understood he was a believer in the existence of flying saucers. 167 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:58,600 He admitted such a belief and brought out the fact that at the time he said 10% of these things were under counter for and that there's definitely something there and that should be investigated. 168 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:10,600 So when you have people of that sort believing in these things and purely on the basis of eyewitness reports, you have no alternative but to accept them. 169 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:28,600 Don't you believe, sir, that there's a possibility that this UFO thing, the unidentified flying object thing and the flying saucer stories are sometimes exaggerated? 170 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:32,600 I have no doubt that sometimes they are exaggerated. 171 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:40,600 Someone sees something in the air that he thinks is not the law in there. 172 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:47,600 I think there's a tendency on the part of any human being to, I'm just a slight bit panicky. 173 00:22:48,600 --> 00:23:05,600 However, you have all of these qualified observers such as airlines, pilots, astronomers such as Clyde Tombaugh, the discoverer of Pluto, who spends his life looking into the heavens and space. 174 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:13,600 When they see these things and report on them and accept the fact that they are there, you must go along with them. 175 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,600 I'll use an example of that. 176 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:29,600 If a reputable person, that you knew to be a reputable person swore in the court of law that he saw someone commit a murder, that man that he accused would probably hang. 177 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:35,600 However, that same man said he saw a UFO. You'd probably say he was crazy. 178 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:36,600 That's true. 179 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:45,600 Let's get across to our listening audience, Mr. Poehler. What the NYCAP committee is trying to do? 180 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:51,600 The NYCAP committee is merely trying to bring this thing into the open. 181 00:23:51,600 --> 00:24:00,600 They believe that the public should be advised of what these things are and why they're here if possible. 182 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:07,600 If, as the Air Force claims, they do not exist, I'll quote Major Kehoe on this. 183 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:12,600 He said they should shoot the entire thing down and have done with it once and for all. 184 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:24,600 But this business of running in circles one time saying they do exist, other times stating that they do not exist, that they're hallucination. 185 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:29,600 It just creates a lot of confusion with the public. 186 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:37,600 If someone sees something in the air now, then I believe all of these things should be reported to the Air Force for investigation. 187 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:46,600 But at the present situation, where the way it exists, people are afraid to report anything but for fear of ridicule. 188 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:50,600 Thank you very much, Mr. Poehler, for a very interesting interview. 189 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:56,600 Mr. Jim Poehler, president of the Malmö Hotel Incorporated Association here in Durham. 190 00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:01,600 People, places and things, you hear them all on WDNC radio.